Aleksandr Usyk Boxing canelo alvarez Donnie Nietes doug fischer dougie's monday mailbag Exclusive Editorial Jarrett Hurd Latest Manny Pacquiao pound for pound Ring pound for pound rankings

Dougie's Monday mail bag (you know it was a slow weekend when fans want to talk about pound-for-pound)

Nordine Oubaali-Rau's Shee Warren rematch raises a look at Tua-Izon's competition

If Adrian Broners' strokes have been to get Manny Pacquiao again to the pound-weighing record, when did his administration proceed? Photograph: Wendell Alinea / MP Promotions


I see that Boxrec nonetheless has Manny Pacquiao ten kilos for punch boxers with number 8. The only plausible rationalization is that it increases the rewards

What was the state of affairs in Ring Journal on the time of Nat Fleischer and the earlier remedy of Nigel Collins

In reality, the results – not to mention the direct line – have been utilized by Andre Ward to protect and continue to be recognized because the champions of Sergio Martinez and Tyson Fury despite their lengthy inactivities reasons.

The identical criterion was used to justify the return of Floyd Mayweather to the pound sterling after the first retirement on the end of 2009 virtually two years after sports activities. Floyd Jr. quickly recovered from his tactile column based mostly on the identical criterion, although Pacquiao's losses to Tim Bradley and Juan Manuel Marquez, who have been pretty pounded towards themselves, received it.

It may be stated that for the Football Pound, it was essential that the Floyd-Pacquiao battle lastly led to 2015.

Makes to marvel why the above-mentioned why Pacquiao was fiercely defeated from the pound value of the drum to the pound. on his controversial battles due to the similarly doubtful Mayweather and Jeff Horn

Fact to inform, based mostly on document and line, solely Canelo Alvarez, based mostly on his battle with Floyd and defeated Miguel Cotton, Gennady Golovkin, because he was in touch with Caneloon Srisaket Sor Rungvusai earned his two victories from the previous prime enemy Roman Gonzales earned factors on the Ring Pound Listing. And that is why it ought to be larger than those that have positioned within the earlier one.

And based mostly on a document containing his earlier profitable Ring Recognition as a linear champion in three weight divisions (might have been 4 if Ring also gave him his recognition in the greeting) Floyd retired and his victory over Cotto) Pacquiao also deserves to be included, at the least in the listing at the backside

The ring cannot be decisive at the other end and fiercely one other if it hopes to restore credibility

Fans don't simply talk about their pound in pound rankings because it modified their policy to somebody who put more emphasis on a report and line to one who favors current ones Results and performance which might be typically obscure

within the opinion of the Philippines. – Teddy Reynoso

Come on, Teddy! I’m the last individual you need to attempt to fool into believing that "fans can hardly speak of" Ring Magazine pound-for-pound rankings. I obtain e-mail messages a minimum of once a week in my Mailbag mailbox, and I get queries and discussions about our legendary scores from hardcore principals virtually daily by way of social media (principally Twitter).

I'm going to be real with you, even in the event you're not real with me, I'm simply getting pound-for-pound obsession among deaths. I know it's a slow time in sport proper now, however it's not slow! You possibly can provide you with some dialog on Friday with the Lomachenko-Crolla mild. And would it kill you to deliver a lady into boxing? Are you planning your head by telling me that Shields-Hammer's Matchup isn't the least intriguing? And have you forgotten Child Chocolate and Caleb Truax? It can be a enjoyable scrap!

No? Nothing? OK, we're speaking about pound score policy and the location of Pacquiao. First, there isn’t any policy or criterion set for the pound-for-pound record. That's why it's referred to as 'legendary' rankings! It comes down to many various things – achievements / achievements, dominance, sports, type, and good "eye test". I've stated this earlier than the mailbox columns and declare it once more: I do not likely care deeply concerned in pound-for-pound rankings. In different words, I often don't hassle about the recommendations made by Scores Panel for P4P. (For instance, I feel Errol Spence has been categorised as a bit too high for # 5. PacMan fans should do the same. Photograph: Naoki Fukuda

The only time I put my ft down in a pound-for-pound funding choice was again when Michael Rosenthal was still the chief editor (and perhaps late Chuck Giampa was nonetheless our President). Roman Gonzalez, 38-Zero at that time and the two division nominee, was The Ring No 1-rated weight (after being a journal's top-of-the-line weight and junior weight), but he didn't pound-for-pound within the prime 10 words principally with considered one of Scores Panel e mail chains that if Chocolatito didn’t break our rankings before challenging Akira Yaegashi (September 2014) for the Ring / WBC-flyweight Championship, I can’t hassle to share my opinion on the mythical placement of the journal. C., I made a foolish pound-for-pound concept utterly, it loses all significance for me at that time) he p.. voice rankings in the summertime, and eventually obtained began, so I was pleased. (He is nonetheless king, by the best way.)

But again to the present, and Pacquiao and Ring's P4P Prime-10. The distinction between Ring Investments and is that we’ve got a panel of editors to help us outline our score within the editorial configuration, whereas a computerized formulation is used on the computing website. (Otherwise, it works. If it is sensible for you, you may get a grant to M.I.T.) I could possibly be fallacious, but I feel Boxrec's system factor is in each rattling battle of Pac ever. He is 40 years previous as the first poll field, which is inevitably the most important Asian fighter. Her resume begins with everyone else. Nevertheless, the pc doesn’t make sense. Individuals are (more often than not). The Ring Score panel not sees Pacquiao as an elite boxer. He's ok to be a top-notch player, but he's not a world player. We aren’t the one ones who consider this. Pacquiao shouldn’t be placed in the pound-for-pound prime 10 of or Transnational Boxing Ranking. Their rating is decided by the panel (or "government"); no computers or mathematical formulation.

I feel you’re a shiny Pacquiao defeat to Jeff Horn, who was his only battle in 2017. Was it controversial? Yeah. (I assumed he gained a few points.) Was it a theft? No. And the underside line is that Pac fought with an unproven and unclassified fighter that Terence Crawford (in Bud's greeting assortment) had been utterly (and stopped) utterly upset for a long time. Manny has returned just advantageous, but the winnings of Lucas Matthysse and Adrien Broner will not be enough to get him back to P4P. At that time Pac met them, Matthysse was a lower-top-10 steel weight (and apparently pale) and Broner was unclassified (gone Three-2-1 within the previous five races)

  Oscar De La Hoya (left) vs. Manny Pacquiao. Photo Credit: Ed Mulholland / HBO Boxing

We haven't seen the peak P4P type of Pacquiao for more than 10 years. Photograph credit: Ed Mulholland / HBO Boxing

I know that Pacquiao's realization is not an elite, it is a robust capsule to swallow for its fans, particularly for the descent of Filipinos, but it occurs to all fighters because they grow old. (Hey, look on the brilliant aspect, Donnie Niete is 36 years previous and nonetheless within the "ring of the Philippines" in the pound-for-pound rankings of The Ring. The man hasn't disappeared since 2004. He's a 35-bout unbeatable plot and he's in his four wards! )

Makes to marvel why the above mentioned Pacquiao was undoubtedly a subtly triggered ring pound placement after his controversial wrestle for Mayweather and Jeff Horn after an equally suspicious defeat. Dude, your husband was an "uncomfortable" common for both races. Don't be indignant on the Scores panel. Be indignant together with your father's time (and perhaps you can save some prayer to Mayweather and his IV and NSAC).

The truth to inform, based mostly on data and features, only Canelo Alvarez was based mostly on his battle with Floyd and overcomes Miguel Cotton, Gennady Golovkin, because he was in touch with Canelo, Srisaket Sor Rungvusai, who had gained two previous heads of Roman Gonzalez pound listing. What!? Do you not consider that your compatriot Donnie Niete is worthy of P4P? Do you not assume that Vasilily Lomachenko, Crawford, Aleksandr Usyk and Naoya Inoue have acquired elite boxers? I know they have not achieved as a lot as Manny (who’s?), But they have constructed impressive sequences in relatively brief (Pacquiao) durations and are at the peak of their bodily talents.


Hiya Dougie,

I really like studying tweets and Mailbag articles, thanks for all your fantastic insight

The Cruiserweight Division felt a little lifeless in recent times (few battles, fewer recognized fighters) . Though Usyk fought there, it was for a moment packed, however as an American fan, I simply don't discover that many fighters are staying in this weight for some purpose. In truth, I can only think of two fighters who have lately fought there who are family names or no less than well-known fans (Usyk and Bellew). The truth is, many extraordinary US boxers don't even know where the "Cruiserweight" belongs to the spectra of the load courses. I understand that there is a nice deal of effort to make boxing dominate the US market, and a robust heavy weight department sometimes favors.

So I have two questions:

  1. So much expertise as heavy and lightweight heavy divisions, why not higher recognized fighters to battle (or stay) 175-200 pounds, especially the western hemisphere boxers? Cruiserweight Division, and imitating the novice troops with Mild-heavyweight (175), Heavyweight (200) and Super-heavy-weight (+200) divisions in professional boxing?

My pals and I all learn the articles and we have now had a lot of dialogue on this matter and we wish to hear your thoughts. Thank you! – Zachary

Thanks in your variety words, Zachary.

I don't know if it is truthful to say that the Cruiserweight division "feels a little dead in recent years" when the undisputed 200-kilo champion Alexander Usyk hasn't even formally left it, and his year-old fighter gained Mairis Bried, Murat Gassiev and Tony Bellewia final yr. (Gassiev's anniversary candidate Yunier Dorticos additionally occurred final yr as part of the WBSS Cruiserweight event.)

If Usyk decides on a marketing campaign full day on a heavy weight after his debut on Might 25th, Carlos Takam, 200 pounds continues to be Gassiev, Dorticos, Briedis , Kryzysztof Glowacki, and some invincible rivals, similar to Andrew Tabiti, Kevin Lerena and Arsen Goulamiria. There are plenty of opportunities for cruise printing. You just have to make the best battles (the key to success for any division).

A lot gifted for heavy and lightweight heavy obligation compartments, why do well-known fighters battle (or keep) in 175 -200 kilos, especially in the western hemisphere boxers? There's simply one thing about what heavy goods are arduous to resist from any dominant or gifted cruise ship, from Evander Holyfield to Juan Carlos Gomez James Tone to our husband Usyk. It’s in all probability more than simply an "attractive" or appreciation of the "greatest sporting prize", it have to be money. Nobody does as much (average) as heavy masses. However it also applies to competition. When a cruiser has gathered all the main straps, as Holyfield and Usyk did, it is natural to start by taking a look at heavy gadgets. Or if the cruiser is as onerous, skilled and expert as Toney was throughout his brief stay in the division, he needs to check his expertise and spend massive boys. (Long before the cruise printing department was the most effective light-weight, even a few mid frequencies, they dared to challenge the peak load of their time.)

Emphasizing the competitiveness of heavy distribution. Cruiserweight sharing and imitating amateur-weight Mild-heavy weight (175), Heavyweight (200) and Tremendous-heavy weight (+200) in professional boxing? Perhaps the renaming of the Cruiserweight division would assist to recognize it in the USA (I don't assume there’s so much stigma in Europe and the remainder of the world), but I feel the perfect 200 kilograms of "heavy weights" will finally add to the "Glamor Division" extra fame and happiness.


Hei Doug,

I pray for you and your loved ones nicely and pray that each one your mail readers and their households will do good.

I learn the newest mailbox and me. m simply embarrassed Jarrett Hurd's pd-for-pd. answer. I know it's all subjective, however often you come from such a logical place. I was actually shocked. Errol Spence has gained Chris Alger, Clock Brook (disappearing) and blown up in Mikey Garcia's match, the place he had all the advantages and known as the world's greatest fighter.

And a good worse instance is Canelo Alvarez. Canelo, which is a high pd. for pd. The battle was a battle between life and dying with Trout and Lara. Each wins are very questionable, and he has two controversial results with Triple G and he misplaced a lost man to Mayweather who is 2 heavier and Mayweather doesn't even run him. She took the battle to Canelo and gained her ass. Canelo was the one who relied. Nevertheless, Canelo is handled as a nice fighter. Why? Because he was ready to take robust competition. It isn’t sufficient. You also want to be determined to be robust and impressive, and it shouldn’t be undisputedly thought-about wonderful. There's more to it and simply appears. Canelo has been very mediocre in contrast to Hurd and has been given more recognition, which he doesn’t deserve. Hurd has up to now proven to be a better fighter. Hurd gained Trout, Lara and Harrison in a very impressive and determined means. These are the three winners. He will not be a higher wanting guy or man who sells probably the most tickets or will get probably the most leap and publicity, however based mostly on efficiency and efficiency only, he ought to be positioned larger than Canelo on any pd. for pd. I feel the listing is logical and never emotional. – Blood and Guts in Philly

I do not like to agree with the logic, B & G, as a result of though I agree that these three wins Hurd, which you talked about (the one world-class names in his CVs) have been impressive, others weren’t as enthusiastic Harrison and Trout strain actors (mentioning that he is not defensive and having hassle chopping the ring), and it is questionable if he wins Lara "in a decisive way" (greater than a few observers believed that the wrestle may need been a guess or even a level for Lara or two).

And even should you say your opinion isn’t emotional, I feel it is. It's fairly clear you don't like Canelo. It's nice. It's a huge group; Not as massive as his fan club, however Canelo Haters is certainly noisy and pleased with commentary and social media.

I do not agree together with your suggestion that the Canelo has been "very mediocre" compared Hurdiin, and I disagree with the fact that he’s "of

. Hurd will take the Harrison of the 2017 battle kilpailukierroksissa. Photograph / PBC [19659018] adds reputation as he deserves. in 2012 (when Maryland's native fought for four more rounds), Hurd wasn't ready for world class opposition until 2017 when she took Tony Harrison and Austin Trout. You can even say that that they had left him at an early midnight – earlier than Hurd's greater measurement, l Swim and suppressing strain threw them in late rounds.

Great props for Hurd when that they had two junior wins of the top 10 greatest teams. Harrison is now a 154-pound bander, a freshly shocked (and considerably controversial) choice by Jermell Charlotte. The trout is as arduous and recent as they come. These wins made Hurd a world class junior midfielder. The decision of Lara, which occurred for just one yr (scripting this reply), puts him in the "elite fighter" conversation, however it is just not a slam dunk as much as a pound-for-pound rating. The winnings towards Lara and Trout are excellent, but she has to do a little extra to get to pound-for-pound. Canelo encountered Trout and Lara back in 2013 and 2014, earlier than and after the defeat at Mayweather, and he has achieved a lot since these races have been.

Canelo digs the body shot at Lara through the 2014 showdown. Photograph: Josh Hedges / Getty Pictures

He struggled towards Trout when the American junior's middle-ranking bookkeeper was invincible and on the peak of his confidence and fingerprint. The Mexican star confronted a newer version of Lara. Was he preventing in these races? In fact! They have been even gambling! But Hurd struggled with Trout's store. Hurd additionally had life and sorrow with Lara, however it was an older Cuban veteran. I had Hurd-Lara even within the rounds;

Canelo encountered the Ring No 1 Pound-for-Pound categorised fighter when he entered the tire vs. Mayweather and GGG. Why does anyone – particularly those who drink TMT Kool AIDS and consider that Floyd is TBE – hold preventing towards him? Canelo was just another fighter who took Golovkin's 12-round distance, and he did so without a drop as Daniel Jacobs did. At Rematch, he stood for his country's battle. NOBODY might never have achieved extra than just a few turns without WRECKED. It is obvious – even should you have been indignant with a pal – that Canelo is an elite boxer. If he weren’t, he would not be fans / media / odds that favor Jacobs, who’s ridiculously gifted.

Send an e-mail to Fischer at [email protected]. Comply with him on Twitter and IG at @ dougiefischer and watch him in Periscope every Sunday on the SMC monitor.

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